Conscious Lee, educator and content creator
Both the left and the right are two different wings on a bird known as white supremacy
Hello and welcome to What’s Left? Weekly interviews with interesting people on the left side of the political spectrum.
Today’s interview is with George “Conscious” Lee. Paid subscribers can watch/listen to the full version of our conversation here!
George “Conscious” Lee is a dynamic orator, innovator, educator, and influential content creator. His work sits at the intersection of media, socio-political issues, and popular culture. Lee is “purposefully provocative” as a tool to elevate and educate around pertinent topics of his generation through social media content, speaking engagement, lectures and online courses. He has developed a brand of educational entertainment that translates an understanding of oppression, consciousness, intersectionality, and gender identity to both the TikTok generation and baby Boomers alike.. Find him across all social media and check out his own Substack here!
Welcome, Conscious. The first question I always ask everyone is this: if there was a version of the political spectrum where zero is centre, -100 is you're a fascist, and +100 is radically left, where would you put yourself?
Before the election, I would have told you 100, but now I realise I’m maybe not as radical as I like to believe. So I’d give myself about a 75.
What happened during the election that made you think you're not that radical?
I was willing to make some concessions for domestic advancements of Black people, despite knowing that the system is genocidal.
I did ultimately vote for Kamala Harris, though I disagree with everything she had to say in terms of the environment and Gaza. But I do think my grandmother deserves to have affordable insulin and I don’t think the women in my life should be penalised for exercising their reproductive freedom.
In my leftist approach, I would have much rather been in opposition to a Harris-Walls administration than a Trump-Vance administration.
Did voting feel bad for you then? It sounds like there was a lot of tension in your decision.
Hell yeah, definitely. I feel like I'm almost an independent. My political ideology is not explained by the politics of left versus right.
I think about the Black experience here in America. And I believe when it comes down to the left and the right, neither of these sides is really involved or invested in Black liberation or even Black independence.
Obviously, the left is more able to get Black folks what they deserve and need to have. But ultimately, I believe that both the left and the right are two different wings on a bird known as white supremacy.
Wow. Fascism on both sides.
Yes. Right now, a lot of the fascism that we're seeing with Donald Trump was already ushered in with Barack Obama and Joe Biden. Joe Biden was whipping on college students for saying, ‘Free Palestine.’
The government was always already genocidal. The American government and America’s origin were made possible through genocide in America.
So, where did your political passion and anger come from? Did you grow up in a family which discussed all of this?
The passion and grit come from being a first-generation college student who had a mom who battled drug addiction and a dad who was involved in selling drugs. So the prison industrial complex is something that's impacted my reality throughout my life.
It also comes from being the descendant of African slaves here in America. My legacy in this country is something I've always thought very critically about. That’s what lit the fire under me, made me think, There’s something wrong with this.
You’re a teacher and an educator. What’s the best way to convince someone who doesn’t agree with you, who doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with this?
As a teacher and when making content as an educator, I'm not prioritising changing your mind. I'm prioritising presenting you with different facts and different perspectives, and I'm hoping that this will impact and influence you to make a more ethical, moral conclusion about what we're talking about.
With my students, I'm hoping that by the end of the semester they have a different understanding, but I'm willing to accept that they probably will not.
Trying to change people's minds is very hard. Especially if they have a support system that's structured on this safety blanket, and then you start trying to take that from under their feet.
Right now, I would argue that the alt-right doesn't care about poor people, but they're good at messaging the poor people. The Republicans have mastered everything they learned from Nazi Germany about propaganda. They’re better at making people feel a certain way to get them to act than the Democrats are.
A lot of your work is in messaging and communicating with people. Is that your attempt to combat the powerful right-wing messaging?
I'm just trying to combat white supremacy and anti-Blackness. Most times, the most sensational examples of that come from the right. But the left is not immune to white supremacy and anti-Blackness, and they also mobilise it.
Can you explain how the left mobilises it?
Ahmaud Arbery was killed in a red state in a red city and state controlled by Republicans. But George Floyd was killed in a blue state, in a city run by Democrats. Even in states like California—believed to be one of the most liberal states in America—they still disproportionately incarcerate Black people. In California, we still have way more Black mothers dying while giving birth. I would argue that within the structure of white supremacy—whether you're talking about left or right—there’s an insatiable appetite for locking up and killing Black people.
So you see why I don’t like playing the left versus right game?
Absolutely. And do you think that there's complacency on the left? A sense that we're fine and not racist, which then doesn’t lead to enough criticism?
Definitely. As a matter of fact, I think that was what was hard for Joe Biden and a lot of the top Democrats to come to grips with in the last election. Y'all are used to being able to corner the market on being seen as anti-racist.
But that doesn't change the fact that whether you’re in a red state or a blue state, Black people are disproportionately dying, being locked up, receiving inadequate education, being targeted and being policed. I care about the political, social and economic independence of Black people. I'm thinking about Black trans people, Black gay people, Black disabled people, Black poor people, Black folks with PhDs, Black folks that dropped out of college, Black folks that dropped out of high school, Black folks that didn't see high school.
I hope that through talking about the Black experience, I can build allies and solidarity with other people. But I'm thinking first and foremost of Black people and how we can gain autonomy, progression and mobility in this system of white supremacy and anti-Blackness.
Watch my conversation with Conscious here!
Can we talk about DEI?
I mean, at this point, DEI is struggling to exist, right?
So can you still do your work? What's your take on all this?
My take is to defend the fort. I think about it as a debater: I can reframe this argument, but the crux of what this argument is conveying is still the same.
Think about how the alt-right went from being the Tea Party to being QAnon to being MAGA. Maybe they rebranded, but the idea that white people are being replaced and that they’ve got to make sure that these Blacks and these women keep their place, that's always been the core argument.
Right now, DEI is seen as a bad word. It’s seen as reverse racism against white people.
Do you just reframe and keep going? How do you have the strength to continually persevere?
The beauty of being a Black American is that everything the world is experiencing right now is shit our ancestors already survived.
I'm always able to recognise the different ways I'm justified in being pessimistic, but I'm also always going to find something to be optimistic about within my Black life.
The Black culture that I love and celebrate so much is made out of resistance and struggle. Whether we're talking about a dance I love, a song I love — all this shit that the world loves about Black America and Black Americans was made through times like this.
Most of the world doesn't like people who look like me. And what I'm going to do about it? Am I going to cry and whine in the house? Or am I going to fight and find a reason to smile? For me, I'm going to find a final reason to smile. I'm born and raised in Texas. Texas is one of the most racist states in America. And I survived it. If I'm able to survive Texas, I can survive anything in the world. That's how I feel.
When I was training to become a doula, I had this Black teacher who told us that white people couldn’t cope during the pandemic because we’ve not faced enough adversity, so there’s no system in our communities in place for taking care of each other. And I’ve been thinking about it ever since.
There seems to be more resilience in the Black community. Although it would be better if you could have that resilience without also first suffering the adversity...
Definitely. A lot of us wear resiliency as a badge of honour, but when you think about it, it's really not that cool. We have to experience struggle and oppression to be resilient.
I would love to live in a world without struggling and oppression, where nobody has to be resilient. Where you get food and water because that's what's supposed to be provided to you.
There ain't too many Black folks that are surprised by fascism. We’ve known democracy was a myth. Now the rest of America is learning it.
So do you feel at all vindicated now? Because I'm quite naïve. I remember when Obama was elected, I was one of those people who genuinely thought it was the end of racism.
Yeah, hell no. I get you though, Amy. I get you. At that age, I'll be real and say it gave me a lot of hope, a lot of inspiration.
But when Barack Obama won the election in 2008, I was a senior in high school in Texas. I was hit with the ugly reality of individuals being extremely upset that he won. As a matter of fact, it emboldened white people here. In Texas, white folks got even more violent and even more ugly with Black people. To show us, ‘You better know your place.’
For a lot of Black folks down South and throughout America, we never fell for thinking that racism was gone. Like, hell no. Y'all more racist now. While we’re celebrating the first Black president in history, while we're celebrating hope and inspiration, they’re not celebrating. They’re letting us know how mad they are.
Barack Obama, Donald Trump and MAGA and QAnon and the Tea Party would not exist if Barack Obama didn’t win that election. They are a product of white backlash to Black progression.
So if Black progression causes white backlash, then how do we have progress?
That's hard.
I'm going to say it most country southern way: I would never be surprised or upset that a dog barks. Because that's what I expect a dog to do
That's how you feel about white backlash.
Yeah, why fight backlash? Listen, as a Black person, there're always going to be particular white people that believe whatever I have, I'm not qualified for it and I ain't supposed to have it. That's fine. I'm still gonna get it though.
I guess I’d say to that that a dog barking is one thing, but what about when the backlash turns violent and dangerous? Dogs can bite, too.
I am going to fight back. White backlash is not going to discourage Black progression. Black people are still going to fight. We’re still gonna make sure our kids get educated. We’re still gonna try to make sure we have access to healthcare.
White folks are going to be mad. But that's America.
If you were on a soapbox with a loudspeaker today, what would your issue be?
I would talk about how most of the world is blind to the way that power and domination structure everything.
Power and domination are what structure the genocide in Gaza. You feel me? Power and domination are the reasons why the Congolese people are the last to benefit from their natural resources, while America and the UK do benefit.
Power and domination are the reasons why white men in America believe they can tell Black women, white women and native women what they should do to their bodies. And the reasons why I speak English in America, why my name is George and I'm of African descent. Power and domination.
I can talk about every topic in the world that I care about through the lens of power and domination.
That’s absolutely fascinating. Ok, lighter question now. I'm trying to get the left to take the piss of itself a bit more. Can you make up a silly marginalised community that you belong to?
I'm a seafood lover, an oyster connoisseur. Right now, climate change and global warming are impacting our sea wildlife in ways that might be irreversible.
The temperature of the water rising puts you at risk of getting sick from eating a dish because parasites are living on the oysters.
There are practices, institutions and policies that lead to pollution and CO2 emissions, which impact how access I get to oysters and even the livelihood of oysters themselves.
So justice for oysters and oyster eaters. That’s great. What’s a book you’d recommend people check out?
Howard Zinn’s A People’s History of the United States, that's a good one, man.
I'm rereading that at the moment! It takes me ages though.
He is dense. And I would also recommend really anything on American slavery.
And what’s some action you recommend?
Really educate yourself about what's going on in the world. Understand how power and domination impact your livelihood and the people around you. My motto is: education's elevation.
Thank you so much for sharing all of that, Conscious.
Don’t forget to check out our full chat here!
I’m assuming you’ll be wanting to hear more from George/Conscious now. Check out his own Substack below and find him across social media!
On the pod this week!
And did you know I have a podcast with comedian Samantha Martin? In FeMANism, we play two terrible cis men mansplaining gender inequality. In our most recent episode, my character, Jamie, gets an AI girlfriend whose main hobby is complimenting him. But is it possible that she finds him TOO funny?
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